The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle : MSNBCW : March 20, 2025 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2025)

citizens of the country. >> we are all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss the weekends. >> saturday and sunday mornings. >> at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> we have had a great show tonight. i'm not in the business of raising money for political candidates of any political stripe, but rebecca cook was, who is running in in wisconsin, did mention her website. and then i started getting social media and emails from people saying that her website appears to be down. i just went to it myself, and it's actually working now, so i don't know whether it went down for a little while or it's what happened, but it does seem to be back up and online. that's tonight's last word. thanks for being with us. i'll see you tomorrow. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle begins right now. >> tonight, the president. >> moves to dismantle the department of education. >> what it means for schools across. >> the country. >> then the. >> latest on trump's legal showdown. as one judge is calling out the doj again. plus, senator bernie sanders and.

congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez hit the road for democrats. a look at their. message and how it's landing with voters. >> as the. >> 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. good evening once again. i am stephanie ruhle. it is day 60 of the. >> second trump. >> administration, and in the two months since he took office. >> donald trump has made it his mission. >> to slash. >> the government. >> through executive orders. just today. >> he signed one to dismantle the. >> department of. >> education as much as he can. >> without an act. >> of congress. >> our own. >> garrett hake has. >> all those details. >> president trump. tonight looking to. >> keep a campaign promise. >> i will sign an executive order to begin eliminating the federal department of education once and for all. >> at a white house event with school. >> children and republican. >> governors. >> the democrats know it's right, and i hope they're going to be voting for it, because ultimately, it may come before

them. >> reporter that's because this order may have little practical impact. >> only congress can. >> abolish an executive agency, a move democrats oppose. >> and the white house said today. court department responsibilities like managing. >> student loans and pell grants and. >> supporting special. >> education will be preserved. >> beyond these core necessities, my administration will take all lawful steps to shut down the department. we're going to shut it down. >> but the american federation of teachers. >> union firing back. see you. >> in court. the trump administration. >> cut the. >> department's workforce in half last week, including terminating some 1300 career employees. >> tonight in. >> denver, teachers protesting, saying the cost. >> cutting will. >> hurt students. >> he's showing where his priorities lie. and it's not with the children. >> of our nation. >> nbc's morgan chesky spoke to a special education teacher. >> our money. >> is not. >> where our. >> mouth is as far as education goes. >> education is already largely a state and local responsibility. >> just 8%. >> of funding. comes from the feds. >> some state. >> education officials are

applauding president trump's move to shift. >> more power away from washington. >> i want. >> to be clear about. >> what the. >> education department. >> actually does. they provide funding. >> for low income districts. >> and public school programs. >> for students with disabilities. >> they manage. >> college financial aid and federal. >> student loans. >> and they track. >> student achievements through. >> the nation's. >> report card, which. >> let's be honest. >> has not. >> been a good one. >> what they do not have control. >> over is. >> curriculum, which is one thing. >> many parents have been. >> critical of. >> meanwhile, the legal showdown over. >> trump's immigration. >> agenda is continuing. the judge overseeing the alien enemies act called the justice department's. >> answers to his questions. >> quote. >> woefully insufficient. he added that the government again evaded its obligations to provide information on the timing of the deportation flights that. >> took place. >> over the weekend. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff. >> panel tonight. >> busy busy, busy. peter baker is here. chief white house correspondent. for the new. york times. >> former u.s. attorney joyce.

>> vance. >> who spent 25 years. as a. >> federal prosecutor. >> and my dear friend. >> brendan greeley joins us, contributing editor. >> for the financial times. brendan. >> you are. >> a parent. >> of a student of a kid. >> on the autism spectrum. >> and your son. is has. >> an individualized program through the department of education. >> i'm saying this i. >> know you're okay. >> with us talking. about this. >> thank you. >> how do you. >> feel tonight? >> scared? >> you know, i've looked at the numbers. >> anne arundel. >> county, that's my county in maryland where my kids in public school got. $18 million last year from the department of education. so that's about half of the support that they. give for special education. i have to say, they do. an amazing job. he has said. >> in his announcement. eliminating the department of education, which, by the way. >> doesn't. >> seem to be legal, that they're going to spare special education. nothing about. >> the. >> chaos that we've seen in every aspect of this administration gives me any kind of reassurance that there will be any kind of continuity there,

and if we are looking for things to rationalize and things to cut, the idea that we would eliminate a department and a crucial part. >> of. >> that funding would not go away, strikes me as absurd. and i don't have any assurance. >> whatsoever that there won't. >> be some kind of a disruption. >> what i do think. >> is interesting was the fact that as they're rampantly. cutting everything. >> they recognize. >> that this is important. he is not a man who is given to caution. he is not a man to give in, to carve outs of the things that he wants to eliminate. but he felt it necessary to stand on. >> that. >> podium and say, we're going to keep this stuff. how? what department? under what authority? where is it going to go? >> we don't know. >> the answers to any of these. >> brendan, when you've got special. >> education teachers, right, who. >> in my opinion. >> are angels among us, okay. >> when they're. >> protesting. >> you got to pay attention, peter. >> the white. >> house's argument has. >> been what. >> they're really. >> doing here. >> is returning education authority to the states. a lot. >> of. >> us could buy that. >> but the question.

>> is. do we know. >> if the states are. going to get. >> more funding. >> out of this? >> but that's. >> because. >> that's the whole game. >> yeah, that's. >> the. >> real question. right. exactly. >> so you want to return education. >> authority to states, but there. >> is a funding source. >> that. >> comes with that authority. and the question is whether trump is trying to actually talk about. >> authority or talking. >> about money. >> if they're talking about saving. >> money. >> the idea is to cut this department to save. money that has an impact on local schools. >> of course, it has. >> an impact on. >> local schools and. >> local school. >> districts. >> and states will have to. therefore either make up the. >> difference or cut. programs and make those hard choices. >> the thing that's. >> really interesting about this, or one of the things that's very interesting about this, is this notion of returning authority to local school districts is something he's giving voice to by. signing this order today. >> at the same time. >> his administration. >> is trying to. >> tell colleges and universities, as well as local. >> schools, what they should be doing. >> so it's one or the other, right? they're telling columbia, for instance, the university of pennsylvania, they're telling individual school districts

about dei and other programs, other ways of approaching education. they don't want them to have certain books and so forth. and at the same time, they're saying the federal government should be allowed to tell these institutions what to do with their policies. >> he's saying. >> actually, i'm turning authority back. and it's kind of there's an inconsistency there that they haven't really explained. >> yeah. >> they're saying. >> let's get big. >> government out of our business. >> unless that business is a. >> law firm. >> we don't. >> like, and let's sign an. >> executive order. >> against them. we're going to talk. >> about that in a moment. but i want to say on. >> the doe. >> joyce, because. >> the teachers union says. >> they're going. >> to sue. >> what do we think that's going to look like? >> so i. >> think we'll see that lawsuit pretty quickly talking about the president exceeding his authority. because after all, this is an agency that was created by congress during the jimmy carter administration. carter signed it into law, but congress passed the bill. and as they say, congress giveth and only congress can taketh away. so this is one of those areas

where there will be a strong argument in court. but, you know, for those of us who read project 2025, there is a conversation about how to destroy the department of education. in that document, the chapter on education was 44 pages long. they might want to slim down the department, but they had a lot to say about how to do it. and the strategy involved cutting it so dramatically that there was very little left, and then going to congress and asking congress to put an end to it. that's the strategy we're seeing trump put into play today. >> well, peter. >> doing away. >> with the. >> doe is not maga or. project 2025. >> specific republicans have been trying to do. >> this since reagan. >> yeah, no, that's true. ever since carter signed that bill that joyce has talked about, this has been a, you know, a priority for conservatives, no question about it. but it's interesting. the history here is interesting. ronald reagan, nobody made a bigger deal about it as a president than ronald reagan did. he came in right after the department was

created. he said he's going to eliminate this. and the energy department, which was also created during carter's tenure, and he didn't either. and why did he do neither? he had a democratic congress, and he believed that you had to. have congress to undo what congress does, which joyce has talked about. he didn't try to do it through his own executive fiat. ronald reagan recognized that the presidency has limits. he recognized that his power could only go so far. and if democrats weren't going along with it, he didn't waste his. >> time. >> you know, waging some sort of battle that wasn't going to go anywhere on capitol hill anyway. and so while he promised during the 1980 campaign, he pretty much dropped it pretty soon after getting into office. here we have a president who has promised to do this with a republican congress, a congress that, in theory, might agree with him. and yet, rather than go to congress and say, hey, we all agree that the department of education doesn't isn't necessary, that it's an extravagance, that we should have. state and local control, which is in theory, is the republican philosophy here. he's choosing to do it through the stroke of his own pen. he's choosing to exercise what he says is his power to at least strip the education department

down to its bones, even if he can't completely get rid of it. why do that when you have a congress that belongs to your own party, and it suggests a certain degree about his view of presidential power and who should be running things in this city, whether congress has any role or not, even with his own party in charge. >> tony soprano. >> doesn't wait for paulie and christopher. >> i mean, every. >> it's not just reagan. >> every republican candidate since. >> reagan has promised to cut. >> this could. >> have been something they do together. >> rick perry. >> famously forgot. >> that he wanted to kill the. >> department of education. that's the oops moment. that's the department. he forgot he. >> was going to kill. >> energy and department of education. >> but he. >> couldn't get there. >> he forgot to study. >> but i. >> peter, is. >> absolutely right. >> i mean. >> the challenge that we have here is democracy. you can say that you want to cut the department of education, but it turns out that people actually like it. and when you go to congress and you say, this is what you are putting at risk, this is a system that barely works, that with the best efforts of special educators and

teachers and parents all working together and therapists, this is a system that barely works, and we're still trying to make. >> it work. >> why would you throw that into risk? the answer is nobody has been willing to do it. in a democracy, the only way you can kill it is if you're going outside of that. >> okay. or how. >> about it's. >> not working? >> okay. >> cut it. >> and then do something. the big. >> question for all of us. is what is that something. joyous new topic. >> let's talk. >> about the deportation flight case. >> the judge said that the government was evasive in answering. >> the judge's questions. >> how big of a deal is this? >> it's a big deal the way the judge is now framing this case is he's demanding that the government turn over information because he's considering whether they violated his earlier order. that clearly is a signal that he's contemplating some sort of some form of sanctions, maybe contempt sanctions, but he has his teeth into it. he doesn't have any intention of giving the government a pass just because it's the government. >> all right. >> new topic, peter. we got to talk about. >> this major. reporting coming.

>> out of your. >> paper. >> the new york times. >> this is a big one. >> new york. >> times tonight. >> is reporting. >> that, according to two u.s. officials. >> the pentagon is set to. brief elon musk on the military's plan. >> for any. >> war that might break out with china. >> nbc news. >> is reporting. >> that musk. >> is scheduled to visit the pentagon on friday for a meeting and. >> briefing, according. >> to three defense officials. >> while the official said. >> one of the topics he is scheduled to be briefed on is china, no one could confirm that musk will be briefed on u.s. military plans for war with china. peter. the new york times broke this story. one could argue elon musk has an enormous amount of experience in china. he knows she better than most business leaders, probably better than most government leaders. however, a private business person. with no. official job in our government who has only had minimal security clearance, is now potentially going. >> to be briefed on. >> what a war would look like between us and china. what?

>> well, look, steph, you're absolutely right. it's eight weeks and three days into this administration. we've had plenty of jaw dropping moments. and this is just the latest. i mean, you're right. the question of why, you know, this private businessman who does have business interests in china needs to understand the war plan. boggles the mind, right? he may need to understand china policy. he may need to understand. or maybe that's helpful to trump to have somebody advise him on on his approach to china, particularly on tariffs or economic issues. i could see that, i suppose, but elon musk is not a military expert. he has no business, you know, setting war plans. so what is the need for him to have access to this hyper super classified information and our government's range of secrets? this has to be up there in the top, you know, small percentage of things that we just don't want to have out there. so what on earth trump is doing by giving him access to this? it's a mystery. and i think that it raises a lot of questions about

the role that elon musk is playing. it obviously goes beyond even what we thought we understood about his, you know, his efforts to trim or or cut agencies, destroy agencies, dismantle agencies, fire workers. this is this is beyond anything. i think we have heard from the president in terms of the responsibilities. he's turned over to this private businessman who still has business in china and has a lot at stake himself. >> brandon, for anybody who's currently watching the show paradise and now reading this. piece in the. >> new. >> york. >> times. >> they're not going to sleep tonight. what's your. >> take here again? elon musk. >> has. >> huge experience in china. >> military zero. >> i mean come on. >> look. >> one of the things i thought extraordinary about that piece is it had five bylines on it. and i could hear the conversation in the newsroom when i read that piece where one reporter came in and said, here's what i think is going on, the editor said, absolutely not. there's no way that's happening. we need to talk to somebody else. and they kept on adding people into the. >> room until they had. >> five people to stand this

story up, because it's so wholly unprecedented. >> and i'm listening. >> to peter talk about this. >> story, and i'm thinking. >> like, all the things that i learned about america are now completely irrelevant. we've got to start from scratch. we're doing a thing that makes absolutely no sense. so it's good of you to say, like, elon musk knows a lot about china, but nothing about this is precedented. nothing about this makes any sense at all. >> okay. >> then let's talk about something else that makes no sense at all. joyce, your take on the chairman of the law firm, paul weiss. right. one of the most impressive, well-regarded law firms in the united states of america, now reaching a deal with the president to get the president to drop the executive order against the firm. the president said that the firm agreed to contribute 40 million bucks in legal services to causes the president has championed. >> this is like, i cannot. >> believe this. >> how big of. >> a deal is it? what do we. >> need to know? >> well. >> and i'm not sure we should believe it, because right now we're hearing donald trump's side of the story. we haven't heard the law firm talking about

what they understand this bargain to look like. so that could be an additional piece of the puzzle here. but the law firm is offering to provide legal services, so the cost to them is actually significantly less than what's being reported. nonetheless, it's disturbing to see that donald trump's executive orders lodged against a variety now of law firms are hitting their mark, and that some of the law firms are finding it's incumbent upon them in order to save their business, to go in and have these conversations with the white house. you know, the problem is this is not the only law firm that's involved. trump has promised that there are more coming. and it's not for nothing that shakespeare, you know, writes, first thing you do is kill all the lawyers. judges can't consider these issues about problems in government unless their lawyers to bring the lawsuits right. courts don't act on their own. so it's important for us to have a vibrant legal bench willing to take on these cases and bring

them in front of the courts. >> i want. >> to share george. >> conway's reaction tonight. he posted this on social media. this paul weiss capitulation is the most disgraceful action. >> by a. >> major law firm in my lifetime. >> so appalling. >> that i couldn't believe it at first. >> any lawyers at that firm, partners. >> or associates. >> who don't promptly resign. >> will defile. >> their moral and. >> professional reputations. >> beyond repair. >> okay, that's george conway's take. >> at the end. >> of the day, peter. >> the law firm. >> needs to stay in business. >> they have. >> to play ball. but look what potentially to. joy's point. we've only heard the president's take on this. look what they've done. what kind of precedent does this set? >> yeah i think i think it is important what joyce said. let's wait and see a little bit more about the details, because i'm not sure we know the whole story. one of the things the president said was this law firm has apologized because one of its lawyers participated in one of the prosecutions against him. remember, that's why he's penalizing this law firm. he's trying to penalize his law firm because one of his lawyers

participated in the prosecution against him. this is retribution. this is what he talked about in the campaign with people ask, what did he mean when he said he was going to wage a campaign of retribution if he got back to the oval office? well, this is what it looks like. he punishes his enemies or people that he perceives to be his enemies, including people who are simply lawyers doing their job. he may not like the job they did, but that's not usually for a president to decide. and he's taking upon himself power to punish private sector actors because they offended him in some way. that is, again, as he was saying, you know, one more step, one more unprecedented precedented action here. and i think the precedent of striking a deal with him, regardless of how the terms turn out to be, will only encourage him, of course, to do it again because it's worked out from his point of view. >> yeah, it's. >> not unusual for a. >> president. >> but no one. >> should be surprised. >> he campaigned on this. he promised on it, and now he's delivering. >> so anybody who's. >> shocked right now. >> you get. >> what you get.

>> peter and joyce. >> thank you brendan. >> unfortunately for you, because you're at 30 rock, i'm not letting you leave. when we come. >> back. >> it is time for money, power politics. >> a new trump administration was supposed to bring a. boom in deal making, but. between tariffs and government cuts. >> it's casting a chill on business. >> and later, as democrats have struggled. >> to find. >> their unified message. yet the. >> two faces. >> of the progressive movement are hitting the road to tell swing state voters about their plans. and there have been big, big events. >> with huge crowds. >> the 11th hour just getting underway. underway. >> on a thursday night. tracey from lillie's of charleston will watch 60 contestants eat 60 hot wings all covered in lillie's hot sauce oh honey, don't touch your face will be in this ad 60% of the time great job, bob!

at bombas, we make absurdly comfortable socks, slippers you'll float in, and underwear and tees that feel like clouds... no, bunnies. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. home. it's where we do the things we love with the people we love. celebrating, sharing—living. so why should aging mean we have to leave that in the past? what if we lived tomorrow in the same place as we did yesterday? what if we stayed home instead? with help, we can. home instead. for a better what's next. travel can make you smell kinda funky. but aluminum-free secret whole body deodorant gives me 72 hour whole body freshness. for long layovers. surprise gate changes. and heavy luggage. and it's totally middle-seat approved. secret. no sweat.

upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. for extra hydration. now there's blink neutral tears. it works differently than drops. blink

neutral tears is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel day after day. try. blink neutral tears a different way let's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? no mask? no hose? just sleep. learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

comcast business doesn't just power businesses. we help turn them into... ...logistics-mastering... ...supply-chain-transforming... ...seamlessly-restocking... ...frictionless-paying... ...poke-bowl-ordering... ...cyber-securing... ...mobile-access granting... ...data managing... ...welcome-to-the-worlding... modern businesses. powering the engine of modern business. comcast business

>> 45 million. coin bonus. >> jackpot party. >> a party. >> in every spin. >> do you. see the smile on my face? it's because you know what time it is. >> money. >> power. politics. >> my favorite part of the show. >> we are tracking. >> more whiplash on wall. >> street as. >> investors digest the fed's. latest warning about tariffs. markets fell again today after fed chair jay. powell said that trump's. tariffs will, quote. delay progress on inflation. president trump. >> quickly reacted. >> to that claim, once again, urging the central bank to cut rates at his tariff, quote, ease their way into the economy. >> ron insana is here looking great. >> with the tan. >> tonight. cnbc senior analyst and ceo of effet. i brendan. >> is still with us. >> brendan jay powell faced. >> pressure from trump to. >> cut. rates during. >> his first administration. he was unfazed. >> here we go again. >> he's facing. >> something different. >> this time. >> last time it was just we had this conversation about should the fed be beholden to political

pressure? and the answer is yes, of course, they always are. they're way more political than we're willing to admit this time. the challenge that they have is their tools are not designed for this environment. so they've got certain predictive. tools and they've. >> got this environment. the tool you need is vodka. yes. >> vodka and prayer. >> yes. vodka prayer and the bible. >> prayer. >> hope and the trails of the entrails of a seagull. >> like this. is how. >> you predicted. >> this environment. but they have models, and the models are showing that, you know, it looks like they're much. >> less hopeful. >> about growth than they used to be. it looks like they're a little less hopeful about inflation than they used to be. growth is going down in their. predictions and inflation is going up. that's a situation they don't like, the one situation they have absolutely no idea how to handle. and so they aren't there yet. but the real problem is they're just watching politics. so i. think jay powell said considerable uncertainty considerable is doing a lot of work there. >> okay. because here's. the thing. the fed has always been in the driver's. >> seat when it comes to the

economy, but they don't even have the numbers. >> to input. >> into the models. >> because of. >> the uncertain. >> situation that's on. >> the fall that. >> falls on the lap of only one person, donald john trump. >> and it means. >> they're not going to do anything that, in. >> my view. >> that. >> means it's. >> not going to. >> do anything. >> the other. >> thing that it means is that they are. >> they are. >> boxed in at this juncture. what what brendan. >> was just describing. >> we would also call. >> stagflation, which would be. >> lower growth. >> higher inflation. >> and the fed. >> doesn't have an. >> antidote for that, whether. >> it's. >> prayers or, you know, some. >> other thing, they're not going. >> to use a chainsaw, they're not. >> going to use. >> any other tool that. >> might be available to them. and so i think personally. >> they. >> stand pat for quite some time. >> irrespective of. >> what the. >> what the president said. >> they're still. >> the only game in town until president trump in 2026 decides to. >> replace jay powell. >> then it can be an entirely different conversation. >> okay, but even if you're. >> kevin warsh. >> and you're. >> waiting in the wings and. >> you want to take this job, if. >> we end up.

>> with stagflation and right. >> now my producers are. >> like. >> please stop talking about stagflation. >> that's like. >> a sailboat, right? >> right. when suddenly. >> the sail. >> is stuck in irons. >> it can't go either way. >> like once. >> we're stuck. >> in stagflation. >> no one's who's. >> it doesn't matter if you get the. >> most. >> inspired person who thinks they. >> know what they're doing. >> well. >> but we've. >> done. >> it once and it was painful. we had stagflation before. i'm so sorry, producers. i'm going to. i'm now i'm done saying it. >> producers and the audience. everyone is tuned out, but i'm watching. >> but eventually what. >> happens when the fed is trying to choose, do we work on employment or do we work on inflation? eventually, when inflation gets bad enough, they're going to choose the inflation no matter what it does to. which means higher. >> rates in a recession, higher rates. >> okay, we've. >> been through this before. it was painful. >> before they bring out the showtime at the apollo. >> hook and. >> drag all of us. >> off, let's change the subject. >> right. i think that was major bowes, by. >> the way. >> but okay, fine. >> yeah. >> tariffs are one thing. >> but the. >> impact doge is having on our economy is another. i talked about. it last night. >> yesterday moody's changed. >> their. outlook on higher. >> education from stable. >> to negative. >> and it is in direct.

>> response to cutting funding from public. >> universities. >> from nih universities. >> their economic. paradigm is now set up based. >> on getting government money. >> you pull. >> that funding away. >> they could economically crumble. >> and this. >> isn't about. >> woke professors. >> losing their tenureship. >> it's about. >> destroying economies. >> all. >> around the country. >> i know the president. >> of princeton. >> where you're currently studying to get your phd. he wrote. >> an op. >> ed about that today. >> yeah. and he basically. >> pointed out in. >> the atlantic that universities made a deal with the government in the in the 50s. >> and it's super important. >> people. don't realize this. >> so if universities accept funding from the national science foundation, then eventually also the nih, in return, the government has to deal with well-funded universities that sometimes come up with facts and opinions that the government does not like. also, in return, the government gets the best higher education system in the world, and arguably. people come from all over. >> and we. then get the best, most highly educated, prepared workforce. >> every other administration,

as much as they've grumbled about this deal, have accepted the deal in return for one of america's great exports education, the trump administration is canceling the deal. and what's happening is, as you pointed out, this national science funding, foundation funding, and the nih funding is the bedrock under which all of the other departments are sort of teetering now as it's being removed. universities all over are canceling their phd classes, instituting hiring freezes. >> it's everywhere. >> you listen. >> really well funded schools will probably be okay. great. so the ivy. >> league schools. >> that have giant endowments. >> you're going to be a-okay. but think about the rest of the. hugely important universities in. >> this country. >> and where they reside and who they serve. >> right. >> and this is. >> true. >> at the. >> hospital level. >> as well. so when. >> you have teaching hospitals, for. >> instance. >> one of my relatives works at one that just saw $140 million in funding, probably going away. if indeed this goes through. >> that is going. >> to cut hopkins cutting. >> 2000 jobs, a. >> city like. >> baltimore.

>> that's not going to help them. >> not in the least. >> and they're already struggling. >> right. so it's. >> it's another problem. >> they're going to have. but yeah, gutting the university. >> system in. >> the united states where again, people from all over the world come here to study in our university systems. i would. agree on one thing with the president is we want to keep him here as long as we can after they get their education. >> absolutely. >> but you don't get. >> there by. >> gutting. >> the system and then turning. >> that entire opportunity over to. >> to another. country to. >> upgrade their system and invite. >> the smartest people from all over the world. >> before world war two, the language of science was german. yeah. they made a conscious decision that they were no longer interested in the best education in the world. >> and let's talk about some other economic impact from the d.o.j. cuts we're now hearing from private equity firms. >> we're now hearing from from giant consulting companies, accenture. suddenly looking at their first quarter earnings and saying, oh, we're going. >> to. fall short in a big. >> way. >> or not a big way. we're going to. >> fall short. >> and you could argue the government shouldn't be spending millions. >> and millions. >> of dollars paying consultants. however, isn't this the first leg of. >> showing that the.

>> trickle down. >> of cuts really could go far? >> yeah. i mean, and consultants aren't a. >> class of people that. >> give you the warm fuzzies. >> so. >> you know. >> nobody feels bad. >> for consultants. >> but the it is an indicator of how capricious and arbitrary this cuts are. and when you go through and you look at which consulting contracts have been cut, you know, from your lips to god's ears, of course we should trim down the federal budget. of course, too much work goes out to consultants. this is true in the corporate world as well. >> yeah. >> but it seems completely arbitrary, incomprehensible, and. >> we don't. >> even know what's happening. it's hard to get the data on what's going on and what you were referencing. steph, with respect to mergers and acquisitions and companies coming out and saying that the. >> deal flow. >> hasn't, you know, appreciably increased. >> as. >> they expected. >> if you. >> go. back to december right after the election and i was talking to bankers. >> and others. >> they were saying, listen, animal spirits are. >> coming back. people are really getting. >> ready to pull the. >> trigger on a lot. >> of deals. and now what i'm hearing in different conferences is, okay, that would have happened. >> had they started with. >> tax cut legislation and more deregulation towards antitrust. >> you know. >> it was a timing.

>> the timing thing. so you're putting the tariffs first. you're putting immigration first. you're going. >> to. >> hurt the economy first. so the deal flow pipeline is not opening. >> up but even the. >> tax cuts i don't. >> think we're. >> going to get. the boost that we got last time around, because last. >> time around they were lowering the. tax basis. now they're. >> just extending it. >> yeah. >> before i. >> let you go i do want to ask you. >> about these two. >> ftc commissioners. >> the two democrats. >> who have been fired. they're going. >> to sue hopefully. >> or because. >> they want to get their jobs back. >> what's your take on this? >> i mean. >> every part of the republican, well, the people who write the checks in the republican party did not like the lina khan ftc. this is the ftc under biden. >> jd vance. >> yeah. did he? >> yeah. >> who? >> jd vance jd vance. >> yes, yes. okay. >> but there. >> had been energy under biden into looking at a variety of mergers and acquisitions that perhaps didn't end up as well as they should. there was actually a sea change. >> in. >> the way we think about allowing companies to merge. and, you know. for 30 years, up until the biden administration,

it had basically been, can you promise lower prices? if so, then great, you're good to go. and she started looking and pointing out that there are all sorts of other downstream effects other than prices. they have effects on. >> employment, they. >> have effects on regulatory capture, all sorts of things. if we allow companies to merge, that started. >> to change. >> under biden. that's going away. >> brandon brought up regulatory capture. >> we cannot have stagflation and regulatory capture. this segment is. >> can you put a bell. >> on the desk? >> and if. >> i say the word just. >> like. >> hit the bell. >> this segment is over. when we return, the progressives launch their own town hall tour. and i guarantee you they didn't talk about regulatory capture. as senator bernie sanders encourages more independent candidates to run. we're going candidates to run. we're going to get into it with tim miller ♪♪ well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance...

to the moon! unbelievable. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms... ...with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after trying humira, rinvoq works differently. rinvoq is a once-daily pill from the makers of humira that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling as fast as 2 weeks for some. and even at the 3-year mark, many people felt this relief. rinvoq can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections. before treatment, test for tb and do bloodwork. serious infections, blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; serious allergic reactions; gi tears; death; heart attack; and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus with a heart disease risk factor. tell your doctor if you've had these events, infection,

hep b or c, smoked, are pregnant or planning. don't take if allergic or have an infection. ask your rheumatologist if switching to rinvoq is right for you. and take back what's yours. ♪♪ i got this wow skin from olay body wash. it's new super serum: sink into my skin with 5 powerful ingredients. 5 benefits in 1! look at this olay difference. so luminous! olay super serum body wash. we started marketing ourselves on tiktok. it's amazing to see how it's growing. there's nothing else that would bring this kind of notability to our company. we wanted to build a legacy, and that's exactly what we're doing on tiktok. the safe step walk-in shower delivers unmatched safety and comfort to make showering easier we wanted to build a legacy, and give you back your independence. with low entry threshold, slip resistant floors, and easy to reach grab bars, you're safe guarded against slips and falls, and the built in foldable seat provides convenience. while the easy to use shower wand

offers a soothing, customizable rinse, and our quick installation process gets you enjoying your new shower sooner. safe step where comfort matters and peace of mind comes standard. herbal essences is a force of nature. made with supercharged botanical blends, our sulfate-free formulas deeply penetrate to boost hair health. without the salon naturals price tag. herbal essences. dupixent can help people with asthma breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. so this is better. and this. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma. it's not for sudden breathing problems and doesn't replace a rescue inhaler. it's proven to help prevent asthma attacks. severe allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs.

tell your doctor of new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop steroid, asthma, or other treatments without talking to your doctor. ask your specialist about dupixent.

prostate health. get super beta prostate. >> at this particular. >> moment, this pivotal moment. >> in. >> american history, despair. >> is not an option. giving up. >> is not acceptable. >> i am here. >> to remind you that we are not powerless in this moment. people are starting to put the pieces together and ironically, the most divisive. >> forces in our country. >> are actually. starting to bring. more of us together. and that is. important. >> two politicians that need no introduction. >> vermont senator bernie. >> sanders and new.

>> york. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, headlining events in western states to outline a plan for a, quote. populist revolt. the progressive lawmakers hit the road as the democratic party hits a new. >> polling low point. >> tim miller, host of the bulwark podcast and. >> former communications. >> director for republican. >> jeb bush, joins me now. tim. >> is this like a. >> dicey one for you? >> because i'm. >> guessing you really like. aoc and bernie's energy, but you and your heart and soul are a never trumper, right? you were once an actual republican, so i. am guessing their politics do not align with yours. >> yeah, you hit. >> it on the head there. >> i got mixed feelings. >> about it, but we'll do the positive. >> first, you know, because we don't. >> have a lot of positive. >> these days. and the. >> energy is good. >> and i think that here's where i do. >> agree with bernie. >> and aoc. >> that is that the democratic party. >> the voters. >> that make up the democratic. >> party. >> are calling for. >> something new. they're

calling for energy. >> they are. >> calling for people that are going to actually fight all the horrors of the. trump administration. >> in. >> this moment. they're open and not even. >> frankly, open. they want somebody i. >> think that's maybe a little bit different. from what. >> the types of politicians that. >> they've had over the last few cycles. >> it's not that they hate kamala. >> harris or joe biden. >> or. >> hillary or anything like that, but but there's a yearning for something new, something fresh, somebody that is going to. really take. >> on this administration. and right. >> now, bernie and aoc are trying to fill that void, and it seems like they're. >> doing it with success. an event going. >> on right. >> now, it's an indoor. >> event that looks packed. and i think that. >> they're going to. >> continue to. and by the way, i think that there would be a huge hunger and interest in people from a wide ideological swath. >> in the democratic party. >> that tried different things. >> and had heterodox views. >> on issues that wanted to go out and lead a fight, lead a resistance against. this

administration. >> it's just. >> that bernie and aoc are the ones that are doing it. >> do you think they're the right messengers? fox news definitely wants them. >> to be. >> yeah, i don't. does it matter? i guess i don't. i think that there's room for a thousand flowers. >> to bloom, right? i don't know. >> i mean. would they be the best messenger in. late 2027 or early 2028? are they. >> the. >> right nominees for the party? i probably that's not my cup of tea per say. probably not. maybe. but for right now i. >> what the democrats. >> need are people that are out there taking the attention back from this administration, drawing. attention to all the negative things that are happening, be it on the. economy or be it on the free speech rights, these unlawful unamerican deportations that are happening or, you know, be it on a. wide range of issues, doge and what elon musk is doing. so i think there's room for them to be out there. and for people that are. >> more moderate. >> to be out there that are fighting this administration. so yeah, i don't i don't think either of them are hurting the democratic party by being out there at all. >> i think what i'm hearing.

>> you. >> say is it's not about being moderate progressive. >> it's being. >> out there. >> and fighting that matters most. >> bernie told. >> the new. >> york times that. >> he thinks more progressives should run as independents like him. do you think that's a good idea? >> i definitely think in certain states it is. i was pretty encouraged by the dan osborne race in nebraska. he's an interesting guy. he ran for senate this past time. he lost, but he was maybe. more bernie and aoc ish on economic issues, but maybe more joe manchin ish on social issues as kind of a shorthand for him. so it was an interesting character, a different type of candidate. he got it was a relatively close race, i think in 2026, if we learned anything from the 2018 first midterm, after, after, after trump won in 2016, it could be a really big year for democrats, and you could win in surprising places. remember that they lost the arizona senate race. doug jones beat roy moore right in that in that midterm. so i think. >> that was that was also i

mean, doug jones is a great candidate. but he was running. >> against roy moore. >> i do want. >> to ask. >> you also alabama. i guess i just mean that i think that democrats could win in surprising places if they ran interesting candidates that are not just pigeonholed as typical democrats, and they could be bernie aoc type. interesting. they could be dan osborne type interesting. they could be moderate, center left type interesting, and they go a different way from the party on some of the social issues. i think all of that is possible, and i think that more people should be running right now and more people should be thinking about running in 20 and 2026. and if that's what bernie's encouraging, i agree with him on that one too. so look at that. look at us, me and bernie. >> i'm out of time. but i want to i want i want to get your take on this because some have said that democrats need their own liberal tea party. david french, who once represented several tea party organizations, said that is the last thing they need because the tea party became a slave to its own rage. what do you think? >> yeah, look at me agreeing

with bernie, disagreeing with david french in this interview. i love david french, but i, i think the democrats do need it. i think that there should be candidates running challenging the old stale democratic politicians. they should be focused on anger towards this administration. there's a lot to be angry or angry about. the voters want it. and you know, i agree with david french, obviously, that that we don't want all of, you know, the overreach of the last tea party. but but is there something there about channeling people's anger and running at with energy based on that anger, driven. >> by that anger? >> i think so i think, yes, i think that's what people want. >> all right. >> you know what i think? i think. >> you. >> on this particular occasion, agreeing with bernie. >> and. disagreeing with david. >> french simply means that you are smart, sophisticated, open minded and optimistic, which is what we all should be. tim, always great to see you. >> yeah. thanks, steph. >> i'm never. >> that nice. >> to you. when we come back, we are two months into trump's second term from his war on the rule of law to. >> the whiplash of his tariff

rollout. american history professor heather cox richardson professor heather cox richardson is here to there are days i feel stuck in my head. even on an antidepressant, lingering depression symptoms can make it hard to break through. i wanted more from my antidepressant. i asked about vraylar. adding vraylar to an antidepressant significantly reduces overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. vraylar isn't approved for elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis due to increased risk of death or stroke. report changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts to your doctor. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. difficulty moving, tremors, slow or uncontrolled body movements, restlessness and feeling like you need to move, nausea, constipation, insomnia, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are common. side effects may not appear for weeks. ♪♪

vraylar. breaking through to relief. ask about vraylar. when our numbers guy, frank, goes on vacation the deals on the most affordable german-engineered car brand in america get even better. he's coming back! hop in during volkswagen deal days. the deals are in while frank is out. —sounds like you need to vaporize that cold. dayquil vapocool? it's dayquil plus a rush of vicks vapors. ♪vapocooooool♪ woah. dayquil vapocool. the vaporizing daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, power through your day, medicine. (man) got one more antoine. power through (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪

(man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. i'm obsessed... with this olay hyaluronic body wash with vitamin b3 complex. it's really hydrating. my skin is visibly improved. look at the olay difference. it's olay hyaluronic body wash and lotion. (♪♪) discover alaska aboard riviera, the only true foodie ship sailing the region. where breathtaking natural wonders meet unmatched service from the heart. with one chef for every ten guests, indulge in gourmet dining on an ultra-premium small ship. scenic days, endless memories. call now for amazing savings.

book now at oceaniacruises.com this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by 2 months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. plus, voquezna can provide heartburn-free days and nights, and is also approved to relieve heartburn related to non-erosive gerd. other serious stomach conditions may exist. don't take if allergic to voquezna or while on rilpivirine. serious allergic reactions include trouble breathing, rash, itching, and swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat. serious side effects may include kidney problems, intestinal infection, fractures, life-threatening skin reactions, low b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. tell your doctor about your medical conditions, medications,

and if you have diarrhea, persistent stomach pain or fever, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, chills, shortness of breath, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna. can your pad absorb everything and stay fresh? always flexfoam can. it's the only pad made with a flexible foam core that locks in blood and sweat while the top stays dry. keeping you up to 100% leak and odor free. see what foam can do for you. likes to reminisce about the good old days of tariff wars and american expansionism, but historian and author. >> heather cox richardson says. >> trump is buying and selling a big old myth. >> and that yesterday's robber. >> barons are today's oligarchs. i sat down with richardson to discuss that, plus her take on

trump's first few weeks in office and what comes next for america. >> watch this. heather, it. >> is so good. >> to see you again. >> it has been a few weeks. we are now just. >> over eight weeks. >> into donald trump 2.0. >> how are things going? >> a little rocky, wouldn't. >> you say? >> i would. have you ever seen. let's just start with the courts. donald trump sort of going head to head with the courts. >> have you ever. >> seen anything like this? >> no. >> of course not. >> and one of the things that's interesting. >> for somebody. >> like me to, to look. >> at in this moment. is to remember. >> that. >> we are. >> a nation. >> of the law. >> a nation that is. >> supposed to rest on the. >> rule of law. >> and when the trump. administration takes that on. and says that. >> it's not going to abide by the rule of. >> law. >> he's really. >> taking on. >> the whole. >> idea of the. sovereignty of the american people. >> because after all our laws rest on. >> we the people.

>> put the law aside. let's talk about the other thing. >> he's doing. tariffs. >> he has openly admired president mckinley and his tariffs. and of course, now donald trump is implementing his own as a historian. what is your. >> reaction to the. >> current president. >> trying. to replicate what. >> mckinley did and how. >> that worked out? >> well, i have to say, as a historian, my first reaction. is to think, are we really going. >> to. talk about. >> william mckinley? >> and the larger picture there is exactly. >> i think, what. >> you're alluding to, and that. >> is. >> that what. >> trump is doing when he talks about william mckinley. is he's trying to resurrect that. >> world view. >> of the robber barons from the late 19th century, in which he keeps saying. >> you know. >> it was such a. wonderful period for america. well, it actually wasn't that great a period for america. it was a period in which the wealth of the country was really concentrated in a very small group of people, and a lot of americans were working for pennies and unable to, you know, put a roof over their heads and food on the table. >> so it's really a reaching. >> back to, i. >> think, a myth of the idea

that if. >> you just. >> put a few men in charge of our economy, things will be great for everyone. but but that's not actually how it worked out. >> so would you say this is robber barons 2.0? >> and how. >> do. >> you. see that ending? >> what happened. >> back then? >> well, it's robber barons 2.0 in a certain way, and that's in the way that the robber barons and today's perhaps tech bros. >> or oligarchs, or. >> in the 1850s. >> the. >> elite southerners and slavers. thought about the way society worked, what they believed was that the way that you moved a society forward most effectively was to concentrate wealth and power. >> in the hands of a. >> very few men. >> who were. >> you know. >> smarter or richer or better educated or better connected than the rest of the american people. and they were the ones to whom the country should be entrusted. and you can see that ideology running through our history. and really, you can see it in the present among people like elon musk, who has the idea that he has a better idea of how to run society than the average

american, or even people like donald trump, who talk about how he is only surrounded by the best people. but that idea has always run headlong into the other way to think about american history, which is the idea that we do best when everybody is treated equally before the law and as equal access to resources and who works together. and that's exactly what happened in the late 19th century, when the power got so heavily concentrated among the robber barons that finally the majority of americans stood up and said, that's not the country we want. in fact, they managed to elect leaders who who wanted to do what was good for everybody instead of just for a very few people. and we got the progressive era out of that. >> the president. >> is. >> also openly. >> talking about adding to the u.s. with places. >> like greenland. >> maybe canada. how long has it been. >> since a. >> u.s. president was. >> so passionate about expansionism? >> and is there any link between that and the tariffs? >> well, so the last time we had

a president who was this enthusiastic about expansionism was, in fact william mckinley. and there is a connection, and it's a connection that i'm a little surprised to see out of the trump administration, because it's a little hard for most people to recognize that it's there. and one of the reasons, in the late 19th century that we got the american push to take hawaii, for example, or guam or puerto rico, was because those were territories or individual states that produced sugar. and in 1890, when congress passes the mckinley tariff, and that's before mckinley was the president. he was the chair of the house ways and means committee, but was instrumental in ushering that tariff through congress. one of the pieces of the mckinley tariff was that it put higher tariffs on sugar. and those areas that produced sugar. the american sugar growers who were in those areas at the time, wanted to be able to bring their sugar into the united states without having to deal with tariffs. and so this is one of the really big pushes to take all of those islands in that

era, so that they would be able to bring in products without paying tariffs on them, but at the same time not have to accept the people who lived there as members of the united states of america. a complete reworking, actually, of the northwest ordinance that always said that when we went into new territories, those territories would become full members of the united states of america. >> it's almost surreal. >> to me. >> that i'm listening. >> to. >> you talk about. >> expansionism and. >> the fact that it could. >> be on. >> the table right now. have we ever. >> seen one. >> person fully. >> own a major. american political party like we. >> see right now. >> with. >> trump's republicans? >> not in the united states of america? no, i mean, we've seen it at the state level. we had people like huey long in louisiana at the beginning of the 20th century. but no, what you have seen really over the last 40 years has been the takeover of the traditional republican party by a small faction of that party, a right wing faction, a group of right

wing extremists taking over that party. and the logical extension of that, the idea that this faction was going to be ushering in an era in which some people would be able to rule over others. the logical extension is that one man would take control of that. and that's exactly what we've seen. we no longer really have a republican party. we have the trump maga republicans, and that is has a lot of destabilization, not only of the country, but also of the republican party. >> thank you again to the ever wise heather cox richardson. >> you can catch our. full interview long form. >> on the 11th. >> hour youtube page. just go to msnbc.com slash. msnbc.com slash. >> stephanie, we'll i'm thinking of updating my kitchen... ...thinking of redoing our kitchen. ...we are finally updating our kitchen. for all those people who never seem to get around to it... —...a breakfast nook. —chase has financial guidance. let's see how you can start saving... —really? —really? at home or in-person. that's guidance from chase. dry... tired... itchy, burning...

my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. i got this wow skin from olay body wash. it's new super serum: sink into my skin with 5 powerful ingredients. 5 benefits in 1! look at this olay difference. so luminous! olay super serum body wash. experience. it takes handling and makes it super handling. born on the racetrack and raised in the third row.

>> it pushes. >> technology to be brighter and that's the energy of innovation. hurry into your local acura hurry into your local acura dealer for the spring into when bad allergies attack... ♪♪ trust claritin to keep you in the game. ♪♪ nothing is proven more powerful for continuous non-drowsy allergy relief. live claritin clear.® ♪♪ if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. travel can make you smell kinda funky.

but aluminum-free secret whole body deodorant gives me 72 hour whole body freshness. for long layovers. surprise gate changes. and heavy luggage. and it's totally middle-seat approved. secret. no sweat. home. it's where we do the things we love with the people we love. celebrating, sharing—living. so why should aging mean we have to leave that in the past? what if we lived tomorrow in the same place as we did yesterday? what if we stayed home instead? with help, we can. home instead. for a better what's next.

yeah it is weird that we still call these things "phones." home instead. well yeah, they're more like minicomputers. precisely. next slide. xfinity mobile customers are connected to wifi 90% of the time. that's why our network has powerboost with speeds up to a gig wherever you need it most. so, this whole meeting could have been remote? oh! that is my ex-husband who i don't speak to. hey! no, i'm good to talk! try xfinity mobile for a year! get an unlimited 5g mobile line included with your xfinity internet, plus a free 5g phone. >> that does it for us tonight. make sure to follow. >> us on. >> social media platforms at the handles on your screen right now. and we are signing off. on that n

tv

Host Stephanie Ruhle brings her business acumen, hard-hitting interview style and original reporting, uncovering stories that affect everyone.

Notes

This material may be protected by copyright law (Title 17 U.S. Code).

info Stream Only